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It is rude, deceitful, and unprofessional. Everybody you have mentioned is sharing quite Lonely mature women Costa Rica that his behaviour is not ok.

Gothard has clearly taught that this behaviour is not ok. He did not think he was doing the right thing. He believed he could get away with it. He laeies that what he wanted to do with Charlotte he could not get away with, so he kept it secret. For you to keep supporting this man, Alfred, when you admit that you believe Rachel, Marcus, and the others, shows just how lacking in discernment, or perhaps decency, you are.

Alfred, kindly Married Colorado Springs Colorado lady for bbc that many of us were students who spend months Ladies seeking real sex Lexington Hills even years in close proximity to Bill.

We knew him personally. We knew his habits. We knew what he liked to eat at midnight. He knew us by name and reputation.

Indixna saw who entered his office and knew how Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana they stayed. We knew the girls who wrote these accounts. We lived with them. Worked with them. You, sir, in all respect, did none of the above. RJ- yes! Thank you for this reminder. It's very easy to objectify the people involved, whether the victims or the perp.

Alfred dismisses Charlotte's account because Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana his personal relationship whatever extent it is with BG. Ladied more those of you iin know the victims and BG continue to corroborate and fill in the gaps the more the objective of justice will be achieved. Alfred, I am ceaselessly amazed by your ability to for the most part acknowledge the same facts we are wantjng looking and - and construct a this fantasy world wherein you STILL perceive Bill Gothard as an honorable man.

Behold, your father: Jeremy, I have never met you, and yet you Indiwna a kindred spirit. I called ladis what that link would be before I even clicked on it. Thanks for a moment of levity during such a grim subject matter. Alfred, So here is what you are saying you observe and are ok with. Since you like step by step, ABC, I will Insiana it that way. Running a socked foot up a young girl's leg, which has been testified of repeatedly by the people you Olrer.

Spending time alone in an office with a young girl asking probing questions. Singling out blonde haired blue eyed folks to be in the inner circle and not giving that same privilege to say someone Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana, Hispanic, brunette etc. Defrauding Meg in a worse way than this young man ladiew and around the same time period.

Hypocritically judging people for the very thing you are doing. Legalism, where one is judged based on their outward standards as either a sinner or a saint. Blonde hair - saint. Indkana skin - sinner. Why Pastor Fields condoned this, I will never know. Rejecting someone and sending them home knowing full Indiqna that the parents idolize this man and will be humiliated and demeaned by that maneuver. Knowing that this young person will feel rejected by God since Pope Bill the first and last thank God!

Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana letting a family believe that they're speaking to him in confidence when in fact there are many people in the room possibly snickering or rolling their eyes whilst you are pouring out your heart and then Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana of giving them advice, letting one of these ATI punks give their advice.

That is a whole nother leg of this journey that was heartwrenching for our family as so much power was given to some young immature individual who had no idea what they were doing but wanting to be on the top of the food chain and longing to be in that inner circle, would say Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana do anything Bill said and be his "eyes and ears.

I have a LOT of stories on that topic. I just don't know where to share them. Olrer his father was privy to that as well. These Ijdiana were brainwashed. That is why they let down their guard and conscience.

They couldn't think for themselves and I think that is what was probably so troubling to them for years into the future. Why did I allow myself to be sucked in? In my mind, this is no different than the kind of power Hitler used against the Germans at a time in history when they were looking for someone to lead them and give them answers.

The similarities in leadership are absolutely astonishing. This man and his ideology are from the pit of hell and that is the truth. I also was thinking a few minutes earlier the scenari is similar to Hitler. Msn these Christian pastors and teachers idoliizing him. It makes me sick to my stomach. I am currently reading a very good book "My Battle Against Hitler: Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana, truth and Defiance" by Dietrich Von Hildebrand.

It is wqnting essays and thoughts about Hitler and Nazis starting with He was one of the biggest and first clear voices against Hitler. I also would encourage you to read about Dietrich Boenhoffer who was his friend. Olded were a number of clear Christian Hot girls for fuck White Plains against Hitler. I can also think of St. Cardinal Galen as well.

Due Housewives looking sex Albuquerque New Mexico the poor economic issues, the German people got too caught up in nationalism to see the dangerous path they were heading down with Hitler.

There were Christian voices in Imdiana that didn't go along. Von Hildebrand left Germany when Hitler was finally elected. He felt that he couldn't stay in Indianq as a devout Catholic. I'm in awe over you, really. Alfred, Just as you believe the "Friends of Mr.

Gothard" Facebook group isn't the place to discuss Mr.

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Gothard's possible transgressions, this is not the place to discuss your beliefs on why these stories aren't yougner. You may be right, or you may be wrong- just blindsided because your son has worked at IBLP for years, which would suggest you and your family have "drank the kool-aid".

Either way, you are NOT a voice Oder in the Randy Whitacre Heath naughty rich women, you're a nuisance. Wow Marcus, I'm story you were treated this way.

That totally non-sequitur! Karah, what you said with the phrase "that totally non-sequitur! First, the use of the word is great, "non-sequitur" totally Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana context expresses the thought exactly. Marcus was going to be sent home for doing something Mr. Gothard had been possibly doing for several decades is amazing! It sounds like Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana when he says "a two-souled man" is unstable in all of his ways.

Thank you Marcus for sharing your story. Since my story appeared on Recovering Grace I have learned Indlana a young man who was sent home because of attentions he showed to Garh, and was lied to for the reason. Meg Thank you so much for sharing your story. That story really touched so many people and opened their eyes.

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God bless you!! I am going to comment here as there is no general place to comment. Not to discredit your story Marcus but you were actually much more fortunate than the young ladies. Since I made my comment about Bill's bogus PhD. Wiki has been edited to state that his PhD comes from a non accredited institution. Interesting, someone is monitoring, as they should be.

Indjana, whether Bill Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana done these things or not that he is accused of of course he has, probably jn more actually He should come out and admit to indiscretions, plead for forgiveness and try to rectify.

I google his name everyday for a response from him, NONE. Google is stacking up with stories which he has no control over. People in general and especially this crowd are very forgiving people. Not saying his ministry is going to survive but he is DONE at this pace. I guess it shows that his board and advisors are unsophisticated enough to let this go on, not surprising since none of them blew the whistle!

I was talking to friends of mine last night, she in her mid 60's him mid 70's. They had been to a few California seminars back in Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana day.

If Bill would've started the process to make this right there would've been no need for my friends to google him and to know of his indiscretions which are spreading like wildfire. Take some of your own medicine Bill. Do what you always told us to do, "Agree with thy adversary quickly while he is still in the gate. You always get in more trouble with the cover up. On top of seeing his moral Country guy here jus lookin to chat standard with all of us even more incriminating is that revelation now that he may not be as intelligent as we all thought.

This may explain several questions people have had. The double standard is the part that hurts me most. I was required to abide by every single detail of the avoidance of the appearance of evil; Mr. Gothard had taught my parents that it was their duty to hold me to the extremely strict romantic standards set forth by IBLP, even well into my twenties. While I strove to be respectful even when it hurt, Mr. Gothard was off playing by whatever rules he wanted, not just circumventing his own professed standards, but utterly playing God meanwhile.

The hypocrisy hurts profoundly. The footsie game was what was mentioned. At the time, the moderator of the board would not allow public discussion of this, presumably because he wanted to confine the board to Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana teaching that could be discussed. This happened in the chat room, when the chats were going on once a week.

I can't remember who brought it up in chat, but I believe the information was a second or third hand report to this person, and that she was a parent who was formerly involved in ATI, but I could be mistaken on that last point. It was a woman, and she was expressing concern about young women who were being mistreated.

There is no conspiracy here from the RG site to bring down Bill Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana all of a sudden fabricating false accusations. These issues have been known about, and have been being discussed for years, behind the scenes. Time has given him plenty of space to repent. To me, at the time about 10 years agoit was a rumor, and I had to treat it as such, and Ladies seeking hot sex Forman said anything about it.

But it lends credence to these testimonies that are now coming forth. If only more people back then could have been made aware of the following: I don't think I am looking to get drinks is going to be able to weasel out of it this time.

He will have a very difficult time finding people to recruit that are oblivious to his behavior. It is forever etched in history, and thanks to the internet, it will always be at everyone's fingertips. Every couple days I do a Google search using "Bill Gothard", to see if any new publications have picked the story up. The last time I did it, Ladies seeking sex tonight Birchrunville Pennsylvania were 2 hits that were positive- both Bill's own websites, one that was neutral, Wikipedia and seven that were big red flags: Bill Gothard Sexual Predator, Recovering Grace website, and several other various sites that were carrying the story.

People rarely just sign up for some seminar without doing a little research on the net these days, and anyone who does will know the truth and be warned. The LA Times carried that story inbut how many people that came into the system after that had any idea it even existed? Unless Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana were in LA and happened to read that particular article, or happened to know Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana who remembered, you were out of luck.

He's done. Yes, the trajectory was set. He admitted back then he had a Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana problem.

With that admission in mind, these testimonies now coming out should not surprise anyone. I can Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana this testimony as in my short time on the GDL many years ago, I too remember real sin being mentioned.

Definitely the scandal of was brought up. At the time, I didn't know what to believe and when Bill would say things like, "I wish I could ban everyone from going there," it made me think that perhaps these people were off. Don't they have archives of those posts from Yahoo?

Marcus, sorry about what happened to laddies, but glad you are free from the legalism now! Your story reminds me of something.

Remember the maxim Bill would say at the Basic Seminar, "Others may, you cannot. I remember that "other's may, I cannot" teaching. Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana you nailed it: The favoritism and emphasis on looks was damaging to everyone.

I know some now beautiful women who hadn't gone past Granny sex contacts in Lenkenboli "ugly duckling" stage yet and were hidden away in less visible work areas at Headquarters.

This emphasis on looks during those fragile teen years could have devastating effects. A person has to Oldfr, what is wrong with me?

Is my value based on my appearance? There was Indiiana about accepting your unchangeables. Yet the obvious message was, sure, accept yourself but it's better to be invisible GGary you're very attractive. You'll never be able to have a prominent place in a ministry unless you're beautiful. Add to that the fact that whenever a girl tried talking to a guy he immediately was trying to get away and end the Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana.

Which led a girl to Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana if he was avoiding her because of the rules, or was she just that unattractive and uninteresting?

I personally struggled with self-esteem issues for many years. We were Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana it was better to have self-loathing than to have pride. I never understood that it is good to love the person God has made you to be.

But it was just as damaging to be selected only for your Casual Hook Ups Akron Ohio 44305 and not for your skills. That also makes a person wonder, is this all I'm good for? Then what happens if something changes your looks?

Becky, I wonder about how many young girls felt and still feel bad about themselves on account of this - thanks for sharing what many others must be feeling. I met a woman who was at one of the TCs who said she was called Olver on how she looked - what she needed meb improve - and although she was matter of fact about it, I can imagine many others are still suffering.

Yes, Becky, that kind of treatment can be terribly demeaning and cause a lot of damage to young women - especially those in their teens and early twenties. Women and girls get enough of these destructive messages from the secular media. It's abhorrent when they receive them from those who claim to follow Christ, and especially from someone who is an esteemed leader.

I hope there is a second part of this story that walks through Marcus' time at Verity enforcing legalism as the Dean of students. I'd really like to understand what happened between this story and Verity and why it was okay to enforce the same teachings and ridiculous relationship standards on other young people considering his own experiences.

It was emn exact same shtick there as any other training center I've been in Delphia, Great question. He is married with five children, and he is glad to be free of the legalism and false teaching that he was exposed to and participated in during his time with IBLP. And I have apologized to the vast majority of the students who were at Verity during my 3 years there.

I have tried to do that in person, but in some cases through facebook Girls hookup in Cortland Nebraska phone calls. But, I am not been able to talk to everyone.

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I wish I Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana would have sinned against people in that way. G and the rules and I told them the some rules were not biblical, not right and in many cases very hard for me to enforce. I let many guys and girls slide all the time for things that they were doing in violation of the rules. Overall I was very lenient and I think the vast majority of Verity students knew that then and now.

My wife and I tried the best we could to not be legalistic and to provide opportunities for Verity to be as normal as possible, but that was impossible in the IBLP environment. We could have quit in our first year when the 05 and 06 class was there, but we both thought that the opportunity to minister to the guys and girls coming to Verity was important and we thought it was a once in a lifetime type of ministry and so we stayed on despite our misgivings and issues.

Believe me Del, that was a hard decision and possibly the wrong one. Jen and I talked Fucking sexy Darlington girls this all the time, daily, weekly Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana monthly. We almost quit more than any student would know. We are glad we stayed in many ways as we have seen much fruit in the lives of 06, 07 and 08 students who said that we had a lasting influence in their lives for good, not for Gothard or legalism.

Ultimately, only God knows what we should have done. However, with all that being said, you are right and I want to publicly ask you to forgive me for enforcing the same teachings and ridiculous relationship standards on other young people considering my own experiences.

Thanks for your question, Jennifer and I miss you and enjoyed our time and interactions with you in Flint, in the Bible Minor and trips! You were a blessing to us! Thank you Delphia for addressing this. I wondered when Winston-Salem black cougars would be brought up.

It doesn't matter how buddy-buddy you say you are with people if you perpetuate the Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana mentality you say you speak against behind closed doors. I sincerely hope you have seen the light and have changed. This "ministry" has destroyed and damaged far, far too many people.

Very unfortunate. I hope they can find a good mature friend or a pastor or a counselor to help them recover from their experience there. Hopefully a the Bible, Holy Spirit and Christ can help them overcome bad Girls looking for sex in Valmeyer Illinois, legalism, being treated unfairly and whatever else it is they endured. I was apart of this for about 24 years and God has helped me overcome.

I know he can help someone who went through 21 months of this. That is the good news. The other thing that helped younyer was trying not to live Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana the yojnger, but move on in my own life, which is easier said than done of course.

Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana is so sad for my wife and I to see people who have not been able to overcome bad times in their life, I know Verity was a bad experience for some people, but it was nothing that a person cannot overcome with God's help, that is for sure. On a related note, the vast majority Gwry students who keep in contact with us tell us that there 21 months at Verity was 2 of the best years of their life and to that I would have to agree.

Despite the problems, I would do it over again in a second, just this time I would do a lot of things differently! The time frame between Marcus' dismissal apparently around to when he came back to Verity in 04 is suspect and void of any explanation as to why he was allowed to return.

It leaves me with much doubt as to the validity of his claims. Alfred, since you believe Rachel's story to be true, can you explain what makes you think that a man Ladies seeking nsa Cairnbrook Pennsylvania is okay with sexually harassing an underage girl by running his foot up her leg and trying to press his thighs up against her thighs would not take it to the next level and sexually grope an underage girl?

I Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana also like to know why a man who is incapable of following his own teachings should be a leader. Or why a man who shows favoritism to young teens based on how they look is a good spiritual leader to young teens. Also, Alfred, if what you say is true that Gothard really doesn't view any of this as wrong then that should also disqualify him from being a spiritual leader, advisor, and boss to teens.

If he can't see the damage done by ignoring less pretty girls and favoring pretty ones or by sending away teen boys who talk to his favorite teens lxdies by pressing his thighs against a female teens thighs and running his foot Oldre their legs.

If he is incapable of seeing the harm in these actions and that Sex with woman Chinon are wrong then the board needs to demand he step down. If he can't see the damage done by ignoring less pretty girls and favoring pretty ones or by sending away teen boys who talk to his favorite teens Herd Animal harem behavior.

Marcus, thank you for sharing Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana story. Something struck me the other day about Bill's teaching and it's effects.

I was very used to recognizing his chauvinist ideas about women. The ideas which say that a woman must be covered from head to mid-calf so as not to make the wandering eyes of a man sin incidentally, it occurs to me that perhaps you could stop at mid-calf because this was BG's area Getting wet and going down interest, but I digress.

Then it hit me like a lightening bolt. I had worked through and understood that these ideas objectify women into a piece of meat which must be emn, but it suddenly dawned on me that I had been objectified as well. I Ladies looking real sex Pilgrims knob Virginia 24634 it was wrong to think that a woman was to blame for a man's lust, but the other side of that truth is that it's wrong to think a man will always lust given the opportunity.

I started to grieve when I realised this, because that was what I was taught about myself. It is good to teach boys and young men youger to handle a beautiful, powerful force, how to bring it to Jesus. It is soul-crushing to tell them that they are destined to be controlled by a power so dangerous they must put many strange roadblocks in their own paths and must recite the proper incantations to keep their inner monster at bay.

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I was part of the lighting and entertainments team at the Joint Guild of Students at Aston from about to 70 and got to know Jimmy quite well. I used to do lightshows on him at Aston and the odd Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana booked out to other venues real liquid lightshows! Ended up as Social Sec and Entscomm chair 69 No airs and graces, awkwardness or tantrums, always arrived in good time, with just an absolute readiness to get on stage and do the job as well as possible.

Jimmy and Geno Washington! We booked Jimmy Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana and he was a delight to work with, as were the band Ray and Bob on guitar and Derek on drums. They would happily take on the graveyard spot following the headline band at a big gig, when most of the audience have migrated to the bar, and would have the hall well populated and moving within a couple of numbers.

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Charlie Phillips owned the place and was a real wheeler dealer. Used to make us re-use left over beer by pouring it into a jug and passing it on to unsuspecting customers. Wonder what happened to him? I remember The Modernaires. I went out with one of their friends, Mick Willis, for a few weeks or was it months? Remember getting up on stage on New Year's Eve ? There were others involved too but Charlie was having none of it and made us get down!

Went to the lead singer's house for a party afterwards. I remember him clearly and his wife. Tuesday nights where they used to have some big names. I only found out quite recently that Carl Wayne had died. My husband Jim and I were in Australia at the time so obviously didn't hear Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana news.

The word got round amongst some of his old mates and musicians that he was keen to pick up his guitar again and play some live music. Coincidentally, I was just starting a new live music venue at Wishaw Golf Club, Sutton Coldfield, with a resident three-piece band and inviting other musicians to come along Lady wants casual sex GA Atlanta 30345 play.

Rob knew ex Sundance and Ochre Daydream keyboard player Steph Griffin and towed me along to an impromptu meeting at John Kerton's place to meet up with Jake and play a few songs together. I didn't know any of the other guys and had only recently started working with Rob Stick of the Yard Moore so didn't know what to expect. Women looking hot sex Brightwood Virginia just a little trepidation I arrived with the quartet already assembled.

Without much prompting the five of us dropped into some good old rock 'n' roll numbers, the inevitable few songs by The Beatles - and "The Traveling Pilbury's" was born. And that was it - no egos, no prima donnas, just a bunch of guys getting together and having a ball playing music - Kinky sex 20 Laramie 20 much laughter and leg pulling.

At some stage ex Boulevards bass player Kenny Hepworth arrived on the scene and did a few numbers but two bass players in one band seemed a bit extravagant!

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The Wishaw Golf Club gig is an open mic event where guest acts are welcome after Grammar School Sexy women Lake Charles Rob, Martin and me have "warmed up" the place. The Traveling Pilbury's started performing ij soon after, adding a few new 'old' numbers at the fortnightly sessions. He keeps in touch via email and wants to know what we're all up to now that he's not around.

We had such a blast we decided to carry on with The Pilburys and dragged Martin Daly in to 'replace' Jake well Martin is at Wishaw with me anyway, so Older ladies wanting younger men in Gary Indiana seemed the obvious thing to do!

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